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GStreamer summit in Istanbul

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Julien Moutte-2

GStreamer summit in Istanbul

Hi GStreamers,

So I learned on Wednesday that there was a GStreamer summit on past
Sunday announced past Friday. Fine, I would have loved to be there, really.

Can someone please flush to the list the discussions that happened there ?

Can we also have our saying on those discussions before any item gets
the "we decided" stamp please ?

I personally had some nice discussions with other people during that
first Guadec day about considering bazaar for our source code
repository, migrating some Fluendo modules to the same repository than
GStreamer, discussing future of media applications like Totem and Rhythmbox.

So we should get synchronized on the mailing list, try to get Mike and
other people on that too and reach some agreement before we go to actions...

Thanks,

Julien Moutte,

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Jan Schmidt-6

Re: GStreamer summit in Istanbul

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 18:52 +0200, Julien Moutte wrote:
> Hi GStreamers,
>
> So I learned on Wednesday that there was a GStreamer summit on past
> Sunday announced past Friday. Fine, I would have loved to be there, really.

You're right - actually organising to get together was a bit rushed and last
minute. Sorry you missed it - obviously more people is better. I brought up
the idea multiple times over the last few months on IRC, and it was in the
channel topic for a week before Friday - but noone really jumped on it, so I
JFDI on Friday by announcing it on my blog and on IRC.

It's a manifestation of our collective problem that the majority of our
decision making happens on IRC. That's also true of the GIT vs other VCS
discussions - the points we covered on Sunday were the sum of things raised
in several discussions on IRC over the last well, year or more.

David has summarised the considerations there really well in the 'GStreamer
switching to git thread' - IMO, choosing Git over Bzr is mostly about the
fact that we have people stepping up to the plate to switch to and provide
support for the first, and so far only bike-shedding for the second. I think
either one is a viable choice for us as a project - we just need to pick one
and do it, so lets do git.

> Can someone please flush to the list the discussions that happened there ?

In fact, we didn't talk about many topics. I think it's about 3 points:
1) Switching away from CVS to something else
2) Is there any desire to branch 0.11?
3) Demos of some things (DVD playback from me, HDV capture from Edward,
basetransform2 progress from Wim)

1) is summarised above ok, I think, and might be better discussed in the
"GStreamer switching to git" thread.

2) The outcome was that there's no interest (among the people present)
in branching 0.11 like we did 0.9. In particular we'd like to avoid any
'unstable series' model that risks 0.10 becoming abandonware while
everyone starts hacking on the next new thing.

What we'd rather see happen is a) move to a VCS that supports branching
well and b) people can then create personal hacking branches to do
experimental things they want to try out, while still pulling from each
other and the trunk. Eventually if we have enough interesting things in
branches, we can try and forge a 0.12 merged version from them.

3) Demos were cool - come see some :)

> Can we also have our saying on those discussions before any item gets
> the "we decided" stamp please ?
>
> I personally had some nice discussions with other people during that
> first Guadec day about considering bazaar for our source code
> repository, migrating some Fluendo modules to the same repository than
> GStreamer, discussing future of media applications like Totem and Rhythmbox.
>
> So we should get synchronized on the mailing list, try to get Mike and
> other people on that too and reach some agreement before we go to actions...

Personally, I'd rather have a discussion along the lines of 'does anyone
we care about (core contributors, maintainers) see git as such a
show-stopper that it will stop them hacking?'. The times we've talked
about it on IRC in the past, I haven't seen anyone stepping up saying
that - until Ole's mail worrying about Git on Windows, but let's talk
about that on that thread.

- Jan

>
> Thanks,
>
> Julien Moutte,
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW!
> Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project,
> along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness
> and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08
> _______________________________________________
> gstreamer-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>

--
Jan Schmidt <[hidden email]>

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Julien Moutte-2

Re: GStreamer summit in Istanbul

Hi Jan,

Thanks for writing down what's been discussed there.

I personally have no strong opinion about git or other DVCS.

I'd like to choose the best one though as I don't really consider the
resources for migrating as being a real problem and I don't think we are
really in a situation where choosing a DVCS would turn away
developers/contributors (I guess...).

Canonical proposed bazaar and apparently they are willing to help. I've
heard great things about it and it might interesting to get their
feedback about why bazaar would be better than git ?

If you want I can take care of discussing with them and collect a
summarized feedback about their points.

We can then discuss them and see if it makes sense.

Cheers,

Julien Moutte.

Jan Schmidt wrote:

> On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 18:52 +0200, Julien Moutte wrote:
>> Hi GStreamers,
>>
>> So I learned on Wednesday that there was a GStreamer summit on past
>> Sunday announced past Friday. Fine, I would have loved to be there, really.
>
> You're right - actually organising to get together was a bit rushed and last
> minute. Sorry you missed it - obviously more people is better. I brought up
> the idea multiple times over the last few months on IRC, and it was in the
> channel topic for a week before Friday - but noone really jumped on it, so I
> JFDI on Friday by announcing it on my blog and on IRC.
>
> It's a manifestation of our collective problem that the majority of our
> decision making happens on IRC. That's also true of the GIT vs other VCS
> discussions - the points we covered on Sunday were the sum of things raised
> in several discussions on IRC over the last well, year or more.
>
> David has summarised the considerations there really well in the 'GStreamer
> switching to git thread' - IMO, choosing Git over Bzr is mostly about the
> fact that we have people stepping up to the plate to switch to and provide
> support for the first, and so far only bike-shedding for the second. I think
> either one is a viable choice for us as a project - we just need to pick one
> and do it, so lets do git.
>
>> Can someone please flush to the list the discussions that happened there ?
>
> In fact, we didn't talk about many topics. I think it's about 3 points:
> 1) Switching away from CVS to something else
> 2) Is there any desire to branch 0.11?
> 3) Demos of some things (DVD playback from me, HDV capture from Edward,
> basetransform2 progress from Wim)
>
> 1) is summarised above ok, I think, and might be better discussed in the
> "GStreamer switching to git" thread.
>
> 2) The outcome was that there's no interest (among the people present)
> in branching 0.11 like we did 0.9. In particular we'd like to avoid any
> 'unstable series' model that risks 0.10 becoming abandonware while
> everyone starts hacking on the next new thing.
>
> What we'd rather see happen is a) move to a VCS that supports branching
> well and b) people can then create personal hacking branches to do
> experimental things they want to try out, while still pulling from each
> other and the trunk. Eventually if we have enough interesting things in
> branches, we can try and forge a 0.12 merged version from them.
>
> 3) Demos were cool - come see some :)
>
>> Can we also have our saying on those discussions before any item gets
>> the "we decided" stamp please ?
>>
>> I personally had some nice discussions with other people during that
>> first Guadec day about considering bazaar for our source code
>> repository, migrating some Fluendo modules to the same repository than
>> GStreamer, discussing future of media applications like Totem and Rhythmbox.
>>
>> So we should get synchronized on the mailing list, try to get Mike and
>> other people on that too and reach some agreement before we go to actions...
>
> Personally, I'd rather have a discussion along the lines of 'does anyone
> we care about (core contributors, maintainers) see git as such a
> show-stopper that it will stop them hacking?'. The times we've talked
> about it on IRC in the past, I haven't seen anyone stepping up saying
> that - until Ole's mail worrying about Git on Windows, but let's talk
> about that on that thread.
>
> - Jan
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Julien Moutte,
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW!
>> Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project,
>> along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness
>> and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08
>> _______________________________________________
>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>>

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Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project,
along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness
and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08
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Zaheer Merali

Re: GStreamer summit in Istanbul

I think bzr's flexibility is actually its coffin in this discussion. I
use bzr for my personal projects and have never used git except for
checking out the linux kernel. However bzr as mentioned in the git
talk at Guadec can access git repositories, so people who like bzr can
use bzr and people who like git can use git.

Zaheer

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Julien Moutte <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi Jan,
>
> Thanks for writing down what's been discussed there.
>
> I personally have no strong opinion about git or other DVCS.
>
> I'd like to choose the best one though as I don't really consider the
> resources for migrating as being a real problem and I don't think we are
> really in a situation where choosing a DVCS would turn away
> developers/contributors (I guess...).
>
> Canonical proposed bazaar and apparently they are willing to help. I've
> heard great things about it and it might interesting to get their
> feedback about why bazaar would be better than git ?
>
> If you want I can take care of discussing with them and collect a
> summarized feedback about their points.
>
> We can then discuss them and see if it makes sense.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Julien Moutte.
>
>
> Jan Schmidt wrote:
>> On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 18:52 +0200, Julien Moutte wrote:
>>> Hi GStreamers,
>>>
>>> So I learned on Wednesday that there was a GStreamer summit on past
>>> Sunday announced past Friday. Fine, I would have loved to be there, really.
>>
>> You're right - actually organising to get together was a bit rushed and last
>> minute. Sorry you missed it - obviously more people is better. I brought up
>> the idea multiple times over the last few months on IRC, and it was in the
>> channel topic for a week before Friday - but noone really jumped on it, so I
>> JFDI on Friday by announcing it on my blog and on IRC.
>>
>> It's a manifestation of our collective problem that the majority of our
>> decision making happens on IRC. That's also true of the GIT vs other VCS
>> discussions - the points we covered on Sunday were the sum of things raised
>> in several discussions on IRC over the last well, year or more.
>>
>> David has summarised the considerations there really well in the 'GStreamer
>> switching to git thread' - IMO, choosing Git over Bzr is mostly about the
>> fact that we have people stepping up to the plate to switch to and provide
>> support for the first, and so far only bike-shedding for the second. I think
>> either one is a viable choice for us as a project - we just need to pick one
>> and do it, so lets do git.
>>
>>> Can someone please flush to the list the discussions that happened there ?
>>
>> In fact, we didn't talk about many topics. I think it's about 3 points:
>> 1) Switching away from CVS to something else
>> 2) Is there any desire to branch 0.11?
>> 3) Demos of some things (DVD playback from me, HDV capture from Edward,
>> basetransform2 progress from Wim)
>>
>> 1) is summarised above ok, I think, and might be better discussed in the
>> "GStreamer switching to git" thread.
>>
>> 2) The outcome was that there's no interest (among the people present)
>> in branching 0.11 like we did 0.9. In particular we'd like to avoid any
>> 'unstable series' model that risks 0.10 becoming abandonware while
>> everyone starts hacking on the next new thing.
>>
>> What we'd rather see happen is a) move to a VCS that supports branching
>> well and b) people can then create personal hacking branches to do
>> experimental things they want to try out, while still pulling from each
>> other and the trunk. Eventually if we have enough interesting things in
>> branches, we can try and forge a 0.12 merged version from them.
>>
>> 3) Demos were cool - come see some :)
>>
>>> Can we also have our saying on those discussions before any item gets
>>> the "we decided" stamp please ?
>>>
>>> I personally had some nice discussions with other people during that
>>> first Guadec day about considering bazaar for our source code
>>> repository, migrating some Fluendo modules to the same repository than
>>> GStreamer, discussing future of media applications like Totem and Rhythmbox.
>>>
>>> So we should get synchronized on the mailing list, try to get Mike and
>>> other people on that too and reach some agreement before we go to actions...
>>
>> Personally, I'd rather have a discussion along the lines of 'does anyone
>> we care about (core contributors, maintainers) see git as such a
>> show-stopper that it will stop them hacking?'. The times we've talked
>> about it on IRC in the past, I haven't seen anyone stepping up saying
>> that - until Ole's mail worrying about Git on Windows, but let's talk
>> about that on that thread.
>>
>> - Jan
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Julien Moutte,
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW!
>>> Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project,
>>> along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness
>>> and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW!
> Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project,
> along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness
> and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08
> _______________________________________________
> gstreamer-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>

Jan Schmidt-6

Re: GStreamer summit in Istanbul

In reply to this post by Julien Moutte-2

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 15:51 +0200, Julien Moutte wrote:
> Hi Jan,
>
> Thanks for writing down what's been discussed there.
>
> I personally have no strong opinion about git or other DVCS.

Neither, since I have no vast experience with any of them.

> I'd like to choose the best one though as I don't really consider the
> resources for migrating as being a real problem and I don't think we are
> really in a situation where choosing a DVCS would turn away
> developers/contributors (I guess...).
>
> Canonical proposed bazaar and apparently they are willing to help. I've
> heard great things about it and it might interesting to get their
> feedback about why bazaar would be better than git ?

That's somewhat like what I was thinking a month or two ago. Since then,
I've learned that the other guys around us have collectively enough
experience with both of those options to be comfortable that either one
is a fine choice for our project, and the decision is not strongly based
on feature differences. Now, I'm of the opinion that it really is about
whether or not we have people around willing to actually do the work,
and whether they're going to stick around to keep it running once it's
done.

J.

> If you want I can take care of discussing with them and collect a
> summarized feedback about their points.
>
> We can then discuss them and see if it makes sense.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Julien Moutte.
>
>
> Jan Schmidt wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 18:52 +0200, Julien Moutte wrote:
> >> Hi GStreamers,
> >>
> >> So I learned on Wednesday that there was a GStreamer summit on past
> >> Sunday announced past Friday. Fine, I would have loved to be there, really.
> >
> > You're right - actually organising to get together was a bit rushed and last
> > minute. Sorry you missed it - obviously more people is better. I brought up
> > the idea multiple times over the last few months on IRC, and it was in the
> > channel topic for a week before Friday - but noone really jumped on it, so I
> > JFDI on Friday by announcing it on my blog and on IRC.
> >
> > It's a manifestation of our collective problem that the majority of our
> > decision making happens on IRC. That's also true of the GIT vs other VCS
> > discussions - the points we covered on Sunday were the sum of things raised
> > in several discussions on IRC over the last well, year or more.
> >
> > David has summarised the considerations there really well in the 'GStreamer
> > switching to git thread' - IMO, choosing Git over Bzr is mostly about the
> > fact that we have people stepping up to the plate to switch to and provide
> > support for the first, and so far only bike-shedding for the second. I think
> > either one is a viable choice for us as a project - we just need to pick one
> > and do it, so lets do git.
> >
> >> Can someone please flush to the list the discussions that happened there ?
> >
> > In fact, we didn't talk about many topics. I think it's about 3 points:
> > 1) Switching away from CVS to something else
> > 2) Is there any desire to branch 0.11?
> > 3) Demos of some things (DVD playback from me, HDV capture from Edward,
> > basetransform2 progress from Wim)
> >
> > 1) is summarised above ok, I think, and might be better discussed in the
> > "GStreamer switching to git" thread.
> >
> > 2) The outcome was that there's no interest (among the people present)
> > in branching 0.11 like we did 0.9. In particular we'd like to avoid any
> > 'unstable series' model that risks 0.10 becoming abandonware while
> > everyone starts hacking on the next new thing.
> >
> > What we'd rather see happen is a) move to a VCS that supports branching
> > well and b) people can then create personal hacking branches to do
> > experimental things they want to try out, while still pulling from each
> > other and the trunk. Eventually if we have enough interesting things in
> > branches, we can try and forge a 0.12 merged version from them.
> >
> > 3) Demos were cool - come see some :)
> >
> >> Can we also have our saying on those discussions before any item gets
> >> the "we decided" stamp please ?
> >>
> >> I personally had some nice discussions with other people during that
> >> first Guadec day about considering bazaar for our source code
> >> repository, migrating some Fluendo modules to the same repository than
> >> GStreamer, discussing future of media applications like Totem and Rhythmbox.
> >>
> >> So we should get synchronized on the mailing list, try to get Mike and
> >> other people on that too and reach some agreement before we go to actions...
> >
> > Personally, I'd rather have a discussion along the lines of 'does anyone
> > we care about (core contributors, maintainers) see git as such a
> > show-stopper that it will stop them hacking?'. The times we've talked
> > about it on IRC in the past, I haven't seen anyone stepping up saying
> > that - until Ole's mail worrying about Git on Windows, but let's talk
> > about that on that thread.
> >
> > - Jan
> >
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Julien Moutte,
> >>
> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW!
> >> Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project,
> >> along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness
> >> and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> gstreamer-devel mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
> >>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sponsored by: SourceForge.net Community Choice Awards: VOTE NOW!
> Studies have shown that voting for your favorite open source project,
> along with a healthy diet, reduces your potential for chronic lameness
> and boredom. Vote Now at http://www.sourceforge.net/community/cca08
> _______________________________________________
> gstreamer-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>