VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

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VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

thx1138
Hello,

We are presently using VST as a plug-in for audio applications and the
question came up today is it possible for VST plug-ins to work with
G-Streamer? Our VST's are migrating from PC/Mac Intel host and desire to use
VST approach with Gstreamer for ARM Cortex A8 processor.

We have Linux Gstreamer as our Linux interface and we are wondering what has
been done in this area already to look at the API interfaces etc.

Regards,

Terry


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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

Stefan Sauer
thx1138 schrieb:
> Hello,
>
> We are presently using VST as a plug-in for audio applications and the
> question came up today is it possible for VST plug-ins to work with
> G-Streamer? Our VST's are migrating from PC/Mac Intel host and desire to use
> VST approach with Gstreamer for ARM Cortex A8 processor.
>
> We have Linux Gstreamer as our Linux interface and we are wondering what has
> been done in this area already to look at the API interfaces etc.

If those are your own vst plugins I would port them to gstreamer. For vst
effects you could use GstAudioFilter as a baseclass
(gst-plugins-base/gst-libs/gst/audio/).

If you want to keep the plugins as they are, you would need to write a brige
plugin. It would load the vst plugins as a host an externaly appear as a
gstreamer plugin.

Stefan

>
> Regards,
>
> Terry
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> gstreamer-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel


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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

thx1138
On 1/6/09 5:25 AM, "Stefan Kost" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> thx1138 schrieb:
>> Hello,
>>
>> We are presently using VST as a plug-in for audio applications and the
>> question came up today is it possible for VST plug-ins to work with
>> G-Streamer? Our VST's are migrating from PC/Mac Intel host and desire to use
>> VST approach with Gstreamer for ARM Cortex A8 processor.
>>
>> We have Linux Gstreamer as our Linux interface and we are wondering what has
>> been done in this area already to look at the API interfaces etc.
>
> If those are your own vst plugins I would port them to gstreamer. For vst
> effects you could use GstAudioFilter as a baseclass
> (gst-plugins-base/gst-libs/gst/audio/).
>
> If you want to keep the plugins as they are, you would need to write a brige
> plugin. It would load the vst plugins as a host an externaly appear as a
> gstreamer plugin.
>
> Stefan
>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Terry
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Hello,

I have discovered that VST Plugins can be used with WINE interface to Linux.
This was done using an Intel and AMD processor. Does anyone have some good
links to doing the same using ARM 11 or Cortex A8 processors? We are suing
Gstreamer for our plug-in interface for Multichannel matrix audio decoding
and post processing.

I am new to this as all of my earlier work was DSP based and now I must
migrate to ARM all of my Dolby, DTS, AAC, MP3 etc. decoding and post
processing.

Any suggestions would be great.

Terry


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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

Cameron Gorrie-2
You might take a look at the "JUCE" project; I think there's something
in there to do with cross-platform (OSX, Linux, Windows) VST-type
plugins.

http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/

Cam

2009/1/8 thx1138 <[hidden email]>:

> On 1/6/09 5:25 AM, "Stefan Kost" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> thx1138 schrieb:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> We are presently using VST as a plug-in for audio applications and the
>>> question came up today is it possible for VST plug-ins to work with
>>> G-Streamer? Our VST's are migrating from PC/Mac Intel host and desire to use
>>> VST approach with Gstreamer for ARM Cortex A8 processor.
>>>
>>> We have Linux Gstreamer as our Linux interface and we are wondering what has
>>> been done in this area already to look at the API interfaces etc.
>>
>> If those are your own vst plugins I would port them to gstreamer. For vst
>> effects you could use GstAudioFilter as a baseclass
>> (gst-plugins-base/gst-libs/gst/audio/).
>>
>> If you want to keep the plugins as they are, you would need to write a brige
>> plugin. It would load the vst plugins as a host an externaly appear as a
>> gstreamer plugin.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Terry
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------->>
> -
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
> Hello,
>
> I have discovered that VST Plugins can be used with WINE interface to Linux.
> This was done using an Intel and AMD processor. Does anyone have some good
> links to doing the same using ARM 11 or Cortex A8 processors? We are suing
> Gstreamer for our plug-in interface for Multichannel matrix audio decoding
> and post processing.
>
> I am new to this as all of my earlier work was DSP based and now I must
> migrate to ARM all of my Dolby, DTS, AAC, MP3 etc. decoding and post
> processing.
>
> Any suggestions would be great.
>
> Terry
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It is the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

Stefan Sauer
In reply to this post by thx1138
hi,

thx1138 schrieb:

> On 1/6/09 5:25 AM, "Stefan Kost" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> thx1138 schrieb:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> We are presently using VST as a plug-in for audio applications and the
>>> question came up today is it possible for VST plug-ins to work with
>>> G-Streamer? Our VST's are migrating from PC/Mac Intel host and desire to use
>>> VST approach with Gstreamer for ARM Cortex A8 processor.
>>>
>>> We have Linux Gstreamer as our Linux interface and we are wondering what has
>>> been done in this area already to look at the API interfaces etc.
>> If those are your own vst plugins I would port them to gstreamer. For vst
>> effects you could use GstAudioFilter as a baseclass
>> (gst-plugins-base/gst-libs/gst/audio/).
>>
>> If you want to keep the plugins as they are, you would need to write a brige
>> plugin. It would load the vst plugins as a host an externaly appear as a
>> gstreamer plugin.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Terry
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------->>
> -
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
> Hello,
>
> I have discovered that VST Plugins can be used with WINE interface to Linux.
> This was done using an Intel and AMD processor. Does anyone have some good
> links to doing the same using ARM 11 or Cortex A8 processors? We are suing
> Gstreamer for our plug-in interface for Multichannel matrix audio decoding
> and post processing.

the wine approach wont help you. The idea behind that is to reuse the plugins
compiles on windows. It emulates the windows api as far as it needed and runs
the dlls. I do this for buzzmachine plugins for gstreamer, pitfdll does this for
windows codecs. If you do this for vst, you could use windows vft plugins under
linux, but only on x86 (and only on 32 bit for 32bit plugins).

If you want to run them on arm, then you need to recompile them. Using qemu
wouldn't give you the needed perormance.

Stefan

>
> I am new to this as all of my earlier work was DSP based and now I must
> migrate to ARM all of my Dolby, DTS, AAC, MP3 etc. decoding and post
> processing.
>
> Any suggestions would be great.
>
> Terry
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
> It is the best place to buy or sell services for
> just about anything Open Source.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Xq1LFB
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel


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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

thx1138
On 1/10/09 7:58 AM, "Stefan Kost" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> hi,
>
> thx1138 schrieb:
>> On 1/6/09 5:25 AM, "Stefan Kost" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> thx1138 schrieb:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> We are presently using VST as a plug-in for audio applications and the
>>>> question came up today is it possible for VST plug-ins to work with
>>>> G-Streamer? Our VST's are migrating from PC/Mac Intel host and desire to
>>>> use
>>>> VST approach with Gstreamer for ARM Cortex A8 processor.
>>>>
>>>> We have Linux Gstreamer as our Linux interface and we are wondering what
>>>> has
>>>> been done in this area already to look at the API interfaces etc.
>>> If those are your own vst plugins I would port them to gstreamer. For vst
>>> effects you could use GstAudioFilter as a baseclass
>>> (gst-plugins-base/gst-libs/gst/audio/).
>>>
>>> If you want to keep the plugins as they are, you would need to write a brige
>>> plugin. It would load the vst plugins as a host an externaly appear as a
>>> gstreamer plugin.
>>>
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Terry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> -
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>> Hello,
>>
>> I have discovered that VST Plugins can be used with WINE interface to Linux.
>> This was done using an Intel and AMD processor. Does anyone have some good
>> links to doing the same using ARM 11 or Cortex A8 processors? We are suing
>> Gstreamer for our plug-in interface for Multichannel matrix audio decoding
>> and post processing.
>
> the wine approach wont help you. The idea behind that is to reuse the plugins
> compiles on windows. It emulates the windows api as far as it needed and runs
> the dlls. I do this for buzzmachine plugins for gstreamer, pitfdll does this
> for
> windows codecs. If you do this for vst, you could use windows vft plugins
> under
> linux, but only on x86 (and only on 32 bit for 32bit plugins).
>
> If you want to run them on arm, then you need to recompile them. Using qemu
> wouldn't give you the needed perormance.
>
> Stefan
>
>>
>> I am new to this as all of my earlier work was DSP based and now I must
>> migrate to ARM all of my Dolby, DTS, AAC, MP3 etc. decoding and post
>> processing.
>>
>> Any suggestions would be great.
>>
>> Terry
>>
>>
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------->>
-

>> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
>> It is the best place to buy or sell services for
>> just about anything Open Source.
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>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> It is the best place to buy or sell services for
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
Hello Herr Kost,

So, If I understand your response, VST plugins compiled for Windowx/MacOSX
would need to be recompiled to run as plug-ins using Gstreamer.

Wine just give a Windows emulation for x86 emulation I gather.

Our software manager has decided to build our Dolby, DTS, etc. plug-ins to
use Gstreamer as interface which I believe is fine, I just need other VST
applications to be ported to Gstreamer.

I wish I had some quick way to evaluate Gstreamer plug-ins versus VST
approach. Perhaps this will take some effort to gather benchmarks on
latency.

Danke fur alles


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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

Stefan Sauer
thx1138 schrieb:

> On 1/10/09 7:58 AM, "Stefan Kost" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> hi,
>>
>> thx1138 schrieb:
>>> On 1/6/09 5:25 AM, "Stefan Kost" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> thx1138 schrieb:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> We are presently using VST as a plug-in for audio applications and the
>>>>> question came up today is it possible for VST plug-ins to work with
>>>>> G-Streamer? Our VST's are migrating from PC/Mac Intel host and desire to
>>>>> use
>>>>> VST approach with Gstreamer for ARM Cortex A8 processor.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have Linux Gstreamer as our Linux interface and we are wondering what
>>>>> has
>>>>> been done in this area already to look at the API interfaces etc.
>>>> If those are your own vst plugins I would port them to gstreamer. For vst
>>>> effects you could use GstAudioFilter as a baseclass
>>>> (gst-plugins-base/gst-libs/gst/audio/).
>>>>
>>>> If you want to keep the plugins as they are, you would need to write a brige
>>>> plugin. It would load the vst plugins as a host an externaly appear as a
>>>> gstreamer plugin.
>>>>
>>>> Stefan
>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Terry
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> --
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I have discovered that VST Plugins can be used with WINE interface to Linux.
>>> This was done using an Intel and AMD processor. Does anyone have some good
>>> links to doing the same using ARM 11 or Cortex A8 processors? We are suing
>>> Gstreamer for our plug-in interface for Multichannel matrix audio decoding
>>> and post processing.
>> the wine approach wont help you. The idea behind that is to reuse the plugins
>> compiles on windows. It emulates the windows api as far as it needed and runs
>> the dlls. I do this for buzzmachine plugins for gstreamer, pitfdll does this
>> for
>> windows codecs. If you do this for vst, you could use windows vft plugins
>> under
>> linux, but only on x86 (and only on 32 bit for 32bit plugins).
>>
>> If you want to run them on arm, then you need to recompile them. Using qemu
>> wouldn't give you the needed perormance.
>>
>> Stefan
>>
>>> I am new to this as all of my earlier work was DSP based and now I must
>>> migrate to ARM all of my Dolby, DTS, AAC, MP3 etc. decoding and post
>>> processing.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be great.
>>>
>>> Terry
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------->>
> -
>>> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
>>> It is the best place to buy or sell services for
>>> just about anything Open Source.
>>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Xq1LFB
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
>> It is the best place to buy or sell services for
>> just about anything Open Source.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Xq1LFB
>> _______________________________________________
>> gstreamer-devel mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
> Hello Herr Kost,
>
> So, If I understand your response, VST plugins compiled for Windowx/MacOSX
> would need to be recompiled to run as plug-ins using Gstreamer.
>
> Wine just give a Windows emulation for x86 emulation I gather.
>
> Our software manager has decided to build our Dolby, DTS, etc. plug-ins to
> use Gstreamer as interface which I believe is fine, I just need other VST
> applications to be ported to Gstreamer.
>
> I wish I had some quick way to evaluate Gstreamer plug-ins versus VST
> approach. Perhaps this will take some effort to gather benchmarks on
> latency.
>
> Danke fur alles
>

The latency is more dependend on what audio i/o plugins you use and how they are
configured. On windows vst is typically used with ASIO. On linux a good
couterpart would be jack, but that might be too heavy for an embedded system
(mixing is float based). A well configured alsa might be enough. It really
depends what you want to do.

Functionality wise the GStreamer plugin api is quite rich. I belive the plugins
can be ported. On thig that is not covered by gstreamer is plugin uis. Thats
left to the plugin host.

Stefan

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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

Paul Davis-2
In reply to this post by thx1138
On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 10:10 -0800, thx1138 wrote:
>  
> So, If I understand your response, VST plugins compiled for Windowx/MacOSX

they are compiled for an OS *and* a CPU architecture: windows/x86 and
OSX/ppc or OSX/x86. you cannot take these plugins an expect to run them
on linux/arm. you could not even run them on windows/arm or
windows/alpha (for example).

> would need to be recompiled to run as plug-ins using Gstreamer.

if you use an ARM processor, they would have to be recompiled one way or
another even if you ran windows and use VST.

> Wine just give a Windows emulation for x86 emulation I gather.

not precisely, but close enough. the point is that the plugins will not
run on a different CPU architecture without being recompiled. unless you
have source code for the plugin, its a non-starter.

> Our software manager has decided to build our Dolby, DTS, etc. plug-ins to
> use Gstreamer as interface which I believe is fine, I just need other VST
> applications to be ported to Gstreamer.

from the sound of it you need VST *plugins* not VST-supporting host
applications.

> I wish I had some quick way to evaluate Gstreamer plug-ins versus VST
> approach. Perhaps this will take some effort to gather benchmarks on
> latency.

the VST architecture has no impact on latency. the audio latency is
determined by the host application, the plugins have no way to affect
it.

i do not know enough about gstreamer to understand its approach to
latency, but i do know that at least as of a few months ago, gstreamer
was not designed around the same principles as most low latency audio
APIs (ASIO, CoreAudio, JACK). however, it may still be able to get down
to the range you need - unless you are creating an application for
pro-audio and/or musical performance, the acceptable range is pretty
wide.



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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

thx1138
On 1/13/09 12:15 AM, "Paul Davis" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, 2009-01-10 at 10:10 -0800, thx1138 wrote:
>>  
>> So, If I understand your response, VST plugins compiled for Windowx/MacOSX
>
> they are compiled for an OS *and* a CPU architecture: windows/x86 and
> OSX/ppc or OSX/x86. you cannot take these plugins an expect to run them
> on linux/arm. you could not even run them on windows/arm or
> windows/alpha (for example).
>
>> would need to be recompiled to run as plug-ins using Gstreamer.
>
> if you use an ARM processor, they would have to be recompiled one way or
> another even if you ran windows and use VST.
>
>> Wine just give a Windows emulation for x86 emulation I gather.
>
> not precisely, but close enough. the point is that the plugins will not
> run on a different CPU architecture without being recompiled. unless you
> have source code for the plugin, its a non-starter.
>
>> Our software manager has decided to build our Dolby, DTS, etc. plug-ins to
>> use Gstreamer as interface which I believe is fine, I just need other VST
>> applications to be ported to Gstreamer.
>
> from the sound of it you need VST *plugins* not VST-supporting host
> applications.
>
>> I wish I had some quick way to evaluate Gstreamer plug-ins versus VST
>> approach. Perhaps this will take some effort to gather benchmarks on
>> latency.
>
> the VST architecture has no impact on latency. the audio latency is
> determined by the host application, the plugins have no way to affect
> it.
>
> i do not know enough about gstreamer to understand its approach to
> latency, but i do know that at least as of a few months ago, gstreamer
> was not designed around the same principles as most low latency audio
> APIs (ASIO, CoreAudio, JACK). however, it may still be able to get down
> to the range you need - unless you are creating an application for
> pro-audio and/or musical performance, the acceptable range is pretty
> wide.
>
>
>
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Hello Paul,

This Terry Shultz,

I was wondering is we could have a chat by phone. I am based in Los Angeles
and I was hoping we could talk a bit more on the path in my earlier emails.

My Cell# is 949.254.1159

Best regards,

Terry


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Re: VST Audio Plug in approach using Gstreamer and Linux OS with ARM Cortex A8 processors

Paul Davis-2
> nfo/gstreamer-devel
> Hello Paul,
>
> This Terry Shultz,
>
> I was wondering is we could have a chat by phone. I am based in Los Angeles
> and I was hoping we could talk a bit more on the path in my earlier emails.
>
> My Cell# is 949.254.1159

Terry, sorry, I missed this (I only read gst-dev mail occasionally). I'm
pretty busy these days and also in Berlin until Feb 17th, making me 9hrs
offset from you, which I find fairly tricky. I find IRC to be a good
substitute for the phone, but we could skype instead if we could find a
good time slot.





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