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using ORC for g729 documentation

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Marco Ballesio

using ORC for g729 documentation

Hello,

some notes about the opensource g729-compatible codec (with gstreamer elements) I posted some weeks ago on this mailing list.
First of all, I've seen, Laurent Glayal has posted another announcement aboput a parallel project in the meanwhile.. I wonder if a join could be possible.

By the way, reference code is _heavily_ unoptimized in many points, especially in the arithmetic operations emulation (64 bits multiplication, division, etc) which, I guess, aren't covered from any copyright nor patents.

I'd like to rewrite those operations in an optimized way using ORC. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find so much documentation about this interesting project and, before starting "shooting in the dark", I'd like to know where I could gather any additional information.

Thanks in advance to anybody who will save me from ignorance.

Regards,
Gibro Vacco

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Edward Hervey

Re: using ORC for g729 documentation

Administrator

Hi,

On Sun, 2009-03-15 at 22:17 +0200, Gibro Vacco wrote:
> Hello,
>
> some notes about the opensource g729-compatible codec (with gstreamer
> elements) I posted some weeks ago on this mailing list.
> First of all, I've seen, Laurent Glayal has posted another
> announcement aboput a parallel project in the meanwhile.. I wonder if
> a join could be possible.

Definitely, but what does Laurent Glayal's version adds compared to
the existing ones ? Also, where is it hosted ?

>
> By the way, reference code is _heavily_ unoptimized in many points,
> especially in the arithmetic operations emulation (64 bits
> multiplication, division, etc) which, I guess, aren't covered from any
> copyright nor patents.
>
> I'd like to rewrite those operations in an optimized way using ORC.
> Unfortunately I wasn't able to find so much documentation about this
> interesting project and, before starting "shooting in the dark", I'd
> like to know where I could gather any additional information.

ORC is part of liboil. I'd recommend checking it out and having a look
at the examples. The git version of libschroedinger can use orc if
available.
ORC is still in active development AFAIK, but maybe David Schleef can
confirm/infirm that statement,

Edward

>
> Thanks in advance to anybody who will save me from ignorance.
>
> Regards,
> Gibro Vacco
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Marco Ballesio

Re: using ORC for g729 documentation

Hello,

> >
> > some notes about the opensource g729-compatible codec (with gstreamer
> > elements) I posted some weeks ago on this mailing list.
> > First of all, I've seen, Laurent Glayal has posted another
> > announcement aboput a parallel project in the meanwhile.. I wonder if
> > a join could be possible.
>
> Definitely, but what does Laurent Glayal's version adds compared to
> the existing ones ? Also, where is it hosted ?
>

afaik Laurent submitted a patch and a bug was filed about him
submittign it on gst-plugins-bad but in git history I don't see any
commit about g729 so far.

Sorry for the trivial question, but.. what are you referring about
"the existing ones" are there other g729 gstreamer implementations I
didn't notice? A global join could give us some very nice stuff..

> ORC is part of liboil. I'd recommend checking it out and having a look
> at the examples. The git version of libschroedinger can use orc if
> available.

so we have at least one working proof of concept.

> ORC is still in active development AFAIK, but maybe David Schleef can
> confirm/infirm that statement,

Even if at a beta stage, ORC deserves to give it at least a try. I'll
follow the examples and, if needed, join the IRC channel to annoy some
skilled gstreamer developer.

Thank you for the answer,

Gibro

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SP GLE

Re: using ORC for g729 documentation

In reply to this post by Marco Ballesio

Hello,

I submitted some g729 code a long time ago _BUT_ :

- the library used is a patched version of ITU g729 source code (the reference code is not thread safe and uses a lot of static variables to keep some processing data, thus two channels at the same time would corrupt each other). The original itu soure code is fetched and a patch applied in order to generate library.

- the reference code is ITU licensed so I encourage you to forget this implementation due to this licensing and to rewrite your own implementation .

- The g729 codec requires license for usage (www sipro com)

- The g729 gst plugins are quite simple and probably attached to a bug but i can send it back if you want.

Regards.

--- En date de : Lun 16.3.09, Gibro Vacco <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Gibro Vacco <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [gst-devel] using ORC for g729 documentation
> À: "Discussion of the development of GStreamer" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Lundi 16 Mars 2009, 22h45
> Hello,
>
> > >
> > > some notes about the opensource g729-compatible
> codec (with gstreamer
> > > elements) I posted some weeks ago on this mailing
> list.
> > > First of all, I've seen, Laurent Glayal has
> posted another
> > > announcement aboput a parallel project in the
> meanwhile.. I wonder if
> > > a join could be possible.
> >
> > Definitely, but what does Laurent Glayal's version
> adds compared to
> > the existing ones ? Also, where is it hosted ?
> >
>
> afaik Laurent submitted a patch and a bug was filed about
> him
> submittign it on gst-plugins-bad but in git history I don't
> see any
> commit about g729 so far.
>
> Sorry for the trivial question, but.. what are you
> referring about
> "the existing ones" are there other g729 gstreamer
> implementations I
> didn't notice? A global join could give us some very nice
> stuff..
>
> > ORC is part of liboil. I'd recommend checking it out
> and having a look
> > at the examples. The git version of libschroedinger
> can use orc if
> > available.
>
> so we have at least one working proof of concept.
>
> > ORC is still in active development AFAIK, but maybe
> David Schleef can
> > confirm/infirm that statement,
>
> Even if at a beta stage, ORC deserves to give it at least a
> try. I'll
> follow the examples and, if needed, join the IRC channel to
> annoy some
> skilled gstreamer developer.
>
> Thank you for the answer,
>
> Gibro
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Builder(TM) are
> powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform
> capabilities. Quickly and
> easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the
> Eclipse(TM)based development
> software that enables intelligent coding and step-through
> debugging.
> Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
> _______________________________________________
> gstreamer-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>

Marco Ballesio

Re: using ORC for g729 documentation

Hello,

> - the library used is a patched version of ITU g729 source code (the reference code is not thread safe and uses a lot of static variables to keep some processing data, thus two channels at the same time would corrupt each other). The original itu soure code is fetched and a patch applied in order to generate library.

Yes I know.. that's the reason for which I'd like to start re-writing
a g729 codec from scratch, starting from the non-patented points .

> - the reference code is ITU licensed so I encourage you to forget this implementation due to this licensing and to rewrite your own implementation .

I agree, see my note of above.

> - The g729 codec requires license for usage (www sipro com)

I guess it's so only if you call it "g729" or base it on reference
code.. if one guy:

1) calls a codec (written from scratch) "HumpyDumpty" saying it's
compliant with ITU-T specs.
2) develops and stores it only where algorithms aren't patentable and
freedom is still a reality (so far).

I guess there shouldn't be any dangerous issues for him. This very guy
must of course avoid re-distributing neither reference code (which is
copyrighted material from ITU-T) nor binaries obtained from it.

If a second guy will then want to re-distribute this code or binaries
obtained from it in a liberty-restricted country it's then up to him
to kindly ask wipro for a license. Meanwhile the rest of the world can
take advantage of using this codec with gstreamer.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

P.S. btw at the moment I'm not "touching" copyrighted algorithms, only
the architecture-specific optimizations about, i.e. 64 bits
multiplications that I guess aren't copyrighted even in many
coding-freedom-restricted countries.

> - The g729 gst plugins are quite simple and probably attached to a bug but i can send it back if you want.

I'd appreciate it, thank you very much.

Regards,
Gibro

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SP GLE

Re: using ORC for g729 documentation

In reply to this post by Marco Ballesio

IMHO using a codec bitstream compatible with g729,for interoperability or not, whatever is name or the algorithm it uses may be subject to licensing.... But I'm not a lawyer and not sure about that.

I'll send you source for gst plugins ASAP.

--- En date de : Mar 17.3.09, Gibro Vacco <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> De: Gibro Vacco <[hidden email]>
> Objet: Re: [gst-devel] using ORC for g729 documentation
> À: "Discussion of the development of GStreamer" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Mardi 17 Mars 2009, 11h29
> Hello,
>
> > - the library used is a patched version of ITU g729
> source code (the reference code is not thread safe and uses
> a lot of static variables to keep some processing data, thus
> two channels at the same time would corrupt each other). The
> original itu soure code is fetched and a patch applied in
> order to generate library.
>
> Yes I know.. that's the reason for which I'd like to start
> re-writing
> a g729 codec from scratch, starting from the non-patented
> points .
>
> > - the reference code is ITU licensed so I encourage
> you to forget this implementation due to this licensing and
> to rewrite your own implementation .
>
> I agree, see my note of above.
>
> > - The g729 codec requires license for usage (www sipro
> com)
>
> I guess it's so only if you call it "g729" or base it on
> reference
> code.. if one guy:
>
> 1) calls a codec (written from scratch) "HumpyDumpty"
> saying it's
> compliant with ITU-T specs.
> 2) develops and stores it only where algorithms aren't
> patentable and
> freedom is still a reality (so far).
>
> I guess there shouldn't be any dangerous issues for him.
> This very guy
> must of course avoid re-distributing neither reference code
> (which is
> copyrighted material from ITU-T) nor binaries obtained from
> it.
>
> If a second guy will then want to re-distribute this code
> or binaries
> obtained from it in a liberty-restricted country it's then
> up to him
> to kindly ask wipro for a license. Meanwhile the rest of
> the world can
> take advantage of using this codec with gstreamer.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> P.S. btw at the moment I'm not "touching" copyrighted
> algorithms, only
> the architecture-specific optimizations about, i.e. 64
> bits
> multiplications that I guess aren't copyrighted even in
> many
> coding-freedom-restricted countries.
>
> > - The g729 gst plugins are quite simple and probably
> attached to a bug but i can send it back if you want.
>
> I'd appreciate it, thank you very much.
>
> Regards,
> Gibro
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Apps built with the Adobe(R) Flex(R) framework and Flex
> Builder(TM) are
> powering Web 2.0 with engaging, cross-platform
> capabilities. Quickly and
> easily build your RIAs with Flex Builder, the
> Eclipse(TM)based development
> software that enables intelligent coding and step-through
> debugging.
> Download the free 60 day trial. http://p.sf.net/sfu/www-adobe-com
> _______________________________________________
> gstreamer-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/gstreamer-devel
>